tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post3009132469252659042..comments2023-11-05T15:42:40.411+08:00Comments on 豬哥的博: 失焦的净选盟——釜底抽薪zeushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13401628763150351106noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post-83892619424796580992013-01-11T21:13:34.514+08:002013-01-11T21:13:34.514+08:00你有堡壘區,我也有堡壘區呀。
但現在的問題是,你的堡壘區選10個代表,我的堡壘區才選1個呀。
你講...你有堡壘區,我也有堡壘區呀。<br />但現在的問題是,<b>你的堡壘區選10個代表,我的堡壘區才選1個呀。</b><br /><br />你講,現在馬國的情況是<br />1.選區劃分人數不公平,還是<br />2.選區人數公平,但投票取向一樣,有堡壘區。<br />哪一個比較嚴重?<br /><br />也許人數一樣的劃分後,會有gerrymandering。<br />所以因為gerrymandering,就不提選區劃分不公平了?<br /><br />這就好像告訴我,把貪污的國陣弄下來後,上台的民聯也會暴權、貪污,所以不要換?zeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13401628763150351106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post-40123717121754857792013-01-11T02:27:04.865+08:002013-01-11T02:27:04.865+08:00各位好像忽略了黄进发所说的“The fundamental solution to constitu...各位好像忽略了黄进发所说的“The fundamental solution to constituency redelineation is not equal apportionment (which inevitably will cause gerrymandering as a price) but change of electoral system”选区重新划分的最终目的不是每个选区人数均等,而是选举制度的改变。每个选区人数均等,便会无可避免的产生gerrymandering。Gerrymandering也是一种选区划分不公,但是它不是表现在人数上而是表现在选区内人们投票倾向上。<br /><br />这样划分下来,虽然各选区看起来人数差不多,某党的“堡垒区”却还是会存在。<br /><br />Youtube上CGPGrey君有很多解释选举弊端的视频,有兴趣可以去看看。<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/course?list=EC7679C7ACE93A5638<br /><br />专门介绍Gerrymandering的视频:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mky11UJb9AY&list=PL7679C7ACE93A5638yonghanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01515494850604320958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post-46105367929883996482013-01-11T02:26:00.286+08:002013-01-11T02:26:00.286+08:00This comment has been removed by the author.yonghanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01515494850604320958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post-19504916046245222212012-04-07T16:38:04.077+08:002012-04-07T16:38:04.077+08:00CY:
再次非常谢谢你这么落力的帮我去问当局,我根本没想到可以得到进发的回复的。
好了,你在楼上...CY:<br /><br />再次非常谢谢你这么落力的帮我去问当局,我根本没想到可以得到进发的回复的。<br /><br />好了,你在楼上写的重点,除了EM的解释我弄错了,应该和我在3楼的回复相差不远吧?呵呵,看了我还可以读懂黄先生的英语的。。<br /><br />你说我这篇文章“对净选盟有欠公平哦” ,我想这言重了。我除了文章的题目,根本没有批评净选盟。打个比方,一窝水在沸腾,为了减低其热度,有人选择倒入冷水、有人选择放冰块、有人建议用扇把水弄冷,这都是方法,我没有批评“倒入冷水、放冰块、用扇把水弄冷的人是笨蛋”,我只是建议真正的问题是烧水的木材,要釜底抽薪。<br /><br />(当然,今晚我打算写一篇“批评”净选盟的文章,敬请留意了。)<br /><br />//我认为Bersih有提到选区划分,但是不在Bersih 2.0集会的8诉求和 Bersih 3.0集会的3重点诉求里//<br />那就确定了我的疑问了,Bersih3是没有选区划分的诉求,因为太复杂,所以要等到来届大选完后,才会提出。<br />....zeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13401628763150351106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post-71242260931137670792012-04-07T15:13:19.404+08:002012-04-07T15:13:19.404+08:00因为你好像对Bersih的运作有误会,所以我才跑去问他,澄清一下对大家都好呀。
8个诉求是Bers...因为你好像对Bersih的运作有误会,所以我才跑去问他,澄清一下对大家都好呀。<br /><br />8个诉求是Bersih要SPR在第13届大选前落实的方案。选区划分不会在第13届大选前落实;并不代表Bersih没有建议。(所以他们对这项是有长期计划的)<br /><br />//The 8 demands are what we want to see implemented before the 13GE. Constituency redelineation will not happen before but that does not mean that we did not make proposals on that.<br /><br />**剩下的我就写重点好了<br /><br />Bersih有选区分划的建议书,但是这个比较复杂,不是短时间内能解决,而且还要尊重东马的意思,如果要好好弄的话会很耗时。<br /><br />PSC是选举改革国会特别遴选委员会<br />EM 是 East Malaysia,东马<br /><br />让我纠正部分的总结<br /><br />要在第13届前解决8诉求,第13届后才谈选区划分等问题 <br />/////1. 在来届13rd大选前先解决8大诉求,过后(第14th)才来谈其他的选区划分问题。<br /><br />应该有谈,但是不是现在的重点诉求 <br />/////2. 因为选区划分、修改选区人数上“很复杂”的问题,先不谈<br /><br />如果选委会划分沙砂二州,就会如你说的加大国阵的票仓。Bersih有自己的建议书,但是需要与沙砂二州二州达成共识。<br />/////3. 因为PSC甚至建议加大国阵的票仓(沙砂二州)的议席比例,所以这是更大的问题,先和选委会(或是那个我不知道的EM)达成一个协议。<br /><br />我认为Bersih有提到选区划分,但是不在Bersih 2.0集会的8诉求和 Bersih 3.0集会的3重点诉求里。<br />3重点诉求:<br />1。所有选委会委员必须辞职<br />2。必须在第13届全国大选前清理选举程序,确保来届大选的干净,<br />3。如果选举还是在落实选改措施前进行,就必须有国际观察员来监督<br />/////所以Bersih就是没有提到选区划分,对吗?<br />因为选区划分是大工程,所以不提先,所以Bersih最后就只有8大诉求,对吗<br /><br />===我直话直说好啦,我认为版主这篇写得有点匆忙。对净选盟有欠公平哦。<br /><br /><br />Bersih 3.0集会的3重点诉求<br />http://www.zaobao.com/yx/yx120405_003.shtmlCYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10946157362774660351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post-65087232469107127722012-04-07T14:25:19.871+08:002012-04-07T14:25:19.871+08:00leejiajia:
欢迎光临!
//心水清的人没几个,起哄凑热闹的到不少,你说得很好。//
...leejiajia:<br /><br />欢迎光临!<br /><br />//心水清的人没几个,起哄凑热闹的到不少,你说得很好。//<br /><br />谢谢称赞。<br /><br />//(墙纸就数狗狗最好看~)//<br /><br />那张照片找了很久,从它忧郁的眼神来看,知道它也和我一样,为妹子的事情而烦~哈哈~zeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13401628763150351106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post-55562310942809744072012-04-07T11:40:38.556+08:002012-04-07T11:40:38.556+08:00写得很乱是真的,但不会很烂!
心水清的人没几个,起哄凑热闹的到不少,你说得很好。
(墙纸就数狗狗最好...写得很乱是真的,但不会很烂!<br />心水清的人没几个,起哄凑热闹的到不少,你说得很好。<br />(墙纸就数狗狗最好看~)leejiajiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069134644862548010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post-16830599990029630332012-04-06T21:10:53.300+08:002012-04-06T21:10:53.300+08:00老百姓:
//是算定了通过这八大诉求,民联已经能胜了吧?//
个人觉得民联说算到国阵是不会改选区划...老百姓:<br />//是算定了通过这八大诉求,民联已经能胜了吧?//<br /><br />个人觉得民联说算到国阵是不会改选区划分的,而且工程、时间、选民册的改变等,太大太久了。如果要改革选区划分,应该在308大选后第二天就开始诉求了。所以唯有退而求其次,要求八大诉求,希望可以捞回一些议席,再通过跳槽促成变天。<br /><br />//ps大选后白里透红可能会给黑黝黝的木油钉干掉…//<br /><br />没错,如果赢了大选,但拿不回雪兰莪、霹雳那些州属,jib哥就要再见了。那时候,真想知道大马报界才子要怎样形容丁少了。黑面包青天?呵呵呵。。。zeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13401628763150351106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post-33888797191198849712012-04-06T13:53:12.095+08:002012-04-06T13:53:12.095+08:00是算定了通过这八大诉求,民联已经能胜了吧?
其实在选举委员会也有提到选区划分,不过没有限定时间执行,...是算定了通过这八大诉求,民联已经能胜了吧?<br />其实在选举委员会也有提到选区划分,不过没有限定时间执行,一个字又拖……<br />ps大选后白里透红可能会给黑黝黝的木油钉干掉…老百姓noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post-43377636611778449162012-04-06T10:00:10.546+08:002012-04-06T10:00:10.546+08:00CY:
谢谢你为我这篇乱乱写的文章,而跑去问黄先生。但是,小弟才疏学浅、英语不是很好,再加上黄先生...CY:<br /><br />谢谢你为我这篇乱乱写的文章,而跑去问黄先生。但是,小弟才疏学浅、英语不是很好,再加上黄先生的水平可能有点高,或在fb回答时有点匆忙,所以我不是很了解黄先生的回答。。<br /><br />我对其答复的解读是这样的:<br /><br />//The 8 demands are what we want to see implemented before the 13GE. Constituency redelineation will not happen before but that does not mean that we did not make proposals on that.//<br />选区划分应该是在8大诉求后被植入大马选举内才提出的,8大诉求里没有选区划分,不表示我们没有提出。<br /><br />//The fundamental solution to constituency redelineation is not equal apportionment (which inevitably will cause gerrymandering as a price) but change of electoral system (which is included even by PSC as its last recommendation) but we cant talk about this.The issue is much more complicated than a simple advocacy for equal apportionment. //<br />选区划分导致不能票票等值,就会导致选区划分不公平。虽然连那个PSC(PSC是选举改革国会特别遴选委员会吗?)都有提到这个选区划分不公的问题,但这是一个很复杂的问题,并不是简单地要求票票等值就可以概括的。<br /><br />// In the PSC report, they want to increase Sabah and Sarawak's parliamentary share from some 25% to 34% - which will make it more disproportionate. So, to change that, we need to offer a package deal that at least the EM would sign up too. We certainly have one package proposal (which is less than a full equal apportionment).//<br />在那个PSC的提议里,他们建议把沙巴砂捞越二州的议席比例提升,这会让选票更加不能等值。所以,我们需要和EM(什么是EM?我知道EC是选委会,EM是打错吗?还是有其他解释?)达成一个双方可以接受的协议。我们对于选区公平的划分当然有建议书。。。<br /><br /><br />我不知道我有没有错误解读他的看法。总结一下黄先生的看法<br />1. 在来届13rd大选前先解决8大诉求,过后(第14th)才来谈其他的选区划分问题。<br />2. 因为选区划分、修改选区人数上“很复杂”的问题,先不谈<br />3. 因为PSC甚至建议加大国阵的票仓(沙砂二州)的议席比例,所以这是更大的问题,先和选委会(或是那个我不知道的EM)达成一个协议。<br /><br />所以Bersih就是没有提到选区划分,对吗?<br />因为选区划分是大工程,所以不提先,所以Bersih最后就只有8大诉求,对吗zeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13401628763150351106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post-1785904789705787102012-04-05T23:40:13.177+08:002012-04-05T23:40:13.177+08:00嗨,我从黄进发那里得到答案了。
The 8 demands are what we want to...嗨,我从黄进发那里得到答案了。<br /><br />The 8 demands are what we want to see implemented before the 13GE. Constituency redelineation will not happen before but that does not mean that we did not make proposals on that.<br /><br />The fundamental solution to constituency redelineation is not equal apportionment (which inevitably will cause gerrymandering as a price) but change of electoral system (which is included even by PSC as its last recommendation) but we cant talk about this. The issue is much more complicated than a simple advocacy for equal apportionment. In the PSC report, they want to increase Sabah and Sarawak's parliamentary share from some 25% to 34% - which will make it more disproportionate. So, to change that, we need to offer a package deal that at least the EM would sign up too. We certainly have one package proposal (which is less than a full equal apportionment).CYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10946157362774660351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1602466505319989676.post-42123763929498754262012-04-05T21:59:00.135+08:002012-04-05T21:59:00.135+08:00325 sudah bocor back-fired : ALL experienced manda...325 sudah bocor back-fired : ALL experienced mandarin-speaking teachers & HM must go to malay schools IF they have NO BC credits in SPM wef 16/4 !!cin2tanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01259911314466534683noreply@blogger.com